29-12-2015 10:42 PM
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Should Marketers Be Allowed To Lie About Their Earnings?

Probably a touchy subject, but really...haven't you noticed? The marketers on their sales pages putting in screenshot after screenshot with masses of income coming in, sometimes blacking out the dates, sometimes blacking out the amount...

But it's not just the legitimacy of these shots!
It's when marketers post the EXACT same screenshots, and specifically claim that the software they made was the reason for this money. Have you noticed some of them do this? Or am I just going mildly crazy? :S Haha hopefully not the latter....

So, anyway, questions for you:

Is this ethical? Should it be allowed (even if the software has potential for such earnings)?
And most importantly: can YOU spot a fake income shot? And how?

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29-12-2015, 11:25 PM
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The simple answer is no! Another thing they lie about is how they are using a product they are promoting in their own business. This helps the credibility of the product but destroys the credibility of the marketer when the product fails. People should learn you can't fool people all the time.
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30-12-2015, 12:41 AM
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As Dion said the answer is no - it's not ethical or legal.

If you search 'Fake Screenshots Clickbank' you'll see a ton of offers with fake screenshots and some people calling them out. Clickbank allowed marketers to use fake screenshots, unethical marketing tactics and basically scam customers for years in the online marketing niche. What ended up happening is that refund rates of the products starting to skyrocket over 50% in some cases for products sold. Customers got sick of getting scammed and Clickbank was forced to do something. Clickbank ended up banning a bunch of affiliates and look where they are now?

Not many online marketers are on Clickbank anymore.

Long term business should be the strategy people focus on and there's nothing long term about lying to customers.

Thankfully on JVzoo it doesn't happen a lot and people get called out when it does happen. The community is as it is now really good - for those of us that remember how bad Clickbank got its a relief but important that we remember the past and make sure it doesn't repeat itself with JVzoo.
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31-12-2015, 12:05 AM
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I would slap them...not like a little "snap out of it slap" but like a "bounce of the desk right back into my arm" kind of slap...nah just kiddin' :) but yeah I remembered when I asked about income proof, that I was told something like: "are you kiddin? Do you know how many marketers out there fake their income shots?" There is just no way I could do that, that is not anywhere near the reputation I would build for myself. Transparency, saying it like it is, is the way to go in my opinion. Lying to customers...that's just stupid in the long run in my opinion. What do you wanna do? Make a quick buck or build a business? 

I have no way of telling if the income proof screenshot is real or not, but as I go through the sales page there is a really quick alarm that goes on saying "those could be faked" and I continue scrolling :) also it would seem that sometimes what Dion mentioned is also correct when he wrote: "Another thing they lie about is how they are using a product they are promoting in their own business."  that's pretty sucky too :)


Only Honest IM Product Reviews: www.themstorm.com

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31-12-2015, 03:14 AM
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Maybe the best thing is to call them out and tell them that you just sent out an email with their earnings to the FTC and the IRA and that they will be happy to come and get their share.... lol Just kidding. There should be some reality and accountability as well. Just to take an example, Chris Record is all open and very transparent when it comes to the software that he creates, because he uses it himself and that is where the rubber meets the road.  Sam and Brad are in the same spirit too. That is why I am here as well.

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02-01-2016, 12:16 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, team!
Gerhard, great to hear that's reason you're here :)
Dion and Srecko, completely agree with you both :)

I guess for me, it's frustrating sometimes seeing sales pages of marketers and seeing the exact same "statistics" - it's OK if they are saying the concept they are selling helped them get this money, BUT...when they outright claim that the particular software made them all this money, say, half a year ago, my question is: when did they have time to use this software 6 months ago, if they posted on Facebook saying it was finished a couple of days ago? It's not quite the same software, is it? :P

I'm a sucker for a good sales page, and I want to buy half the stuff that comes across my inbox, but as we all become immune to the hype words, I tend to look at the proof, and if it's questionable and doesn't speak to the physical software they claim, it sucks that there's no 'community' to hold those marketers accountable. But...I guess this is what Sam is trying to create here, especially with the ability to post individual reviews in this forum.

To anyone reading this, I do urge you to definitely use the 'Reviews' section of this forum to review both other marketers' products, as well as Sam's - it's not about trolling, but rather alerting the marketers who may or may not already know about this forum about the general public's views so they can improve and walk their talk - because if they can walk their talk, this gives US; the customers - faith and most importantly potential success in the long-run as well as short-term :)
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16-01-2016, 08:26 PM
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Hi Eva Maria,

Thanks for asking, Easy answer:

I don't know about legal, However, Sure it is not ethical.

Yes, I can see many faked JV sales pages with faked screenshots, sometimes with same screenshots for different products & different sellers 😊

Usually, I purchase not because of the long bla bla & faked social proofs, that include faked screenshots as well as fiverr's testimonials... When I purchase, I totally ignore these things & purchase when I feel that I wish to explore that idea.

Maybe, here on this forum, some people will wish to expose it, so this behavior will reduce with time.

Thanks & Enjoy Life :)

Ahrale

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19-01-2016, 12:19 AM
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it sucks that there's no 'community' to hold those marketers accountable. 

It's completely up to You to hold them accountable. If You see obviously faked screenshots

then report them at their hosts, the FTC or even the police... Most of the time they simply

get away because people let them scam them and then take absolutely no action against

those people. At least when the site owner is in north america or europe then he is required

by law to only use verifiable results in his advertising.


It's simply that 95% of the IM sites completely ignore just about all the rules concerning "fair advertising"...

As long a speople keep buying and no one demands the sites to be taken down they will be around...


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19-01-2016, 03:30 PM
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@ansgar TOTALLY AGREE! The problem with reporting them without letting anyone else know, or have the community find out, is that those marketers can change their names, set up new websites etc. it's not rocket science for them :) But I agree - "be the change you want to see in the world" :D 

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21-01-2016, 03:49 PM
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 "be the change you want to see in the world" :D 


Yes, totally agree with this, alas those of us that think this way are a minority.

Originally, screenshots of income used to 'impress' me but that was a long time ago. Everything can be 'faked', (heck I even did a traffic infringement notice from the NZ Police as a joke on a mate lol) but what does make me sit up and take notice is when a guy shows live on video, today's date (Google live search for newspaper etc) and then he logs in to his PayPal a/c and shows the date and then the earnings. I'm sure that can probably be 'faked' also though. I think it's kinda like how much people are worth though, every severely wealthy person I know (millions and tens of millions) never mention 'how much they own or earn' and yet the wannabes are always telling you this kind of stuff.

Of course marketers shouldn't be allowed to lie about their earnings although I know it happens a lot. Like Sam says though, if you want to build a solid business and be in business for the long term, this is NOT the way to do it. And to me that is not rocket science.

One thing I wondered about Sam and this forum is 'why' Sam decided to create it? I mean it has obviously taken a few bucks to set up and a lot of time, as well as a lot of his time ongoing to moderate / participate etc. And the entry fee is ridiculously cheap, I mean $97 a year?? (No Sam, I'm not complaining, you don't need to put it up lol) But then I realised something that I'm not sure whether Sam realised or not in the beginning, and that is this;

 - after reading several posts by Sam on this forum, I know him better now than I did before, I mean I didn't know him although I have seen many of the sales videos he did and I have also bought several products through his affiliate links. But now I feel I know him a lot better, not just as a marketer but as a person, and this has led me to the decision that if I am buying a product and Sam is promoting it, I'll always buy it through his aff link. The only exception to this would be if someone else had a crazy bonus that I really wanted or needed, which would happen too often.

- the second thing is this; I have invested a lot of time and money over the years, even though I had little time to absorb all of the knowledge and was lacking the technical skills to implement many things that I wanted to, but it has put me a lot further ahead than I would have been if I had not done that. I mean I have a pretty good general grounding of how the internet works, how money is created, what works and what doesn't etc. I have always believed that to make any venture worthwhile you have to treat it like a business and you have to invest in it - investment as opposed to cost, and that applies to online as well, not just offline. Anyway... in the near future I can see me investing more with a mentor to get up to speed quickly, utilise the prior learning and investment and make some serious income! And I will be looking to spend my $ with Sam as I now know him to be a man of integrity etc.

Seems like once again Sam is living up to his mantra (with Bakkers Board) he's in it for the long haul, not a quick buck.
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21-01-2016, 04:00 PM
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ooops! I meant wouldn't happen too often..
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29-01-2016, 09:02 AM
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Should Marketers Be Allowed To Lie About Their Earnings?

I sometimes lie about my earnings. After a good day at the office I will dump wads of cash on the beds and floors in a haphazardly fashion, and then just lie about sipping Mimosas while listening to the audiobook for The Book of Ecclesiastes.  ("vanity, vanity; all is vanity")

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29-01-2016, 12:50 PM
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Fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me twice Shame on me.


There is another growing trend of faking testimonials which goes hand in glove with the faked earnings.


The amount of times out of curiosity I have checked testimonials with links to find the links don't exist  

or if they do, they are not using the product/plugin/software on their own domains even though the testimonial 

says the product is the best thing since sliced bread. 


From the first line about being fooled. There are a few people on my black list that I would not buy

from ever again regardless of how good the product was. Nor anything that they promote.


To Quote part of Dion's comment  "This helps the credibility of the product but destroys the 

credibility of the marketer when the product fails. People should learn you can't fool people all the time".


We all have choice where we spend our money. Why support or encourage Liars and cheats. 

The sooner they are weeded out the better for all.


 and as Sam stated, It is not Ethical or Legal.


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25-02-2016, 01:54 PM
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When I see a marketer say something like, "I Made $4,873.56 in Seven Days," I almost puke. 

Often I don't even open the message at all. 

Anybody can make-up a number that psychologically sounds legit, but I just made-up that number, too.  :) 

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15-03-2016, 11:00 AM
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In the Mind Field of scam artists...

"All Marketers are Liars" & this might help...

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4FrvXeliUyYQTlBZTRQR0ZZTnM/edit

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15-03-2016, 11:03 AM
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FYI - thats not my D/L  - Your best friend who "Does no Evil" spat the link up by typing in this...

all marketers are liars pdf

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15-03-2016, 02:33 PM
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Hi Maria and everybody,

Yes of course it's not only not ethical- it's plain stupid and only will work with total newbees who still have to  "get burned" unfortunately, before they realize what's going on.

BUT one thing more: Even very well known and accepted marketers misguide and mislead their audiences, with "Sales-Numbers".

Anybody with some buiseness knowledge would ask: "O.K. yes,  but what was the profit left...after all  the affiliates, where pid and marketing costs where subtracted."  I can also easily make "Sales of One Million Buck" (...but since I'm not a good marketer would probably need 2 million in marketing expenses to do that... LOL :) )

So I think this also is not a very honest practice, but still too many use it since still too many people do not understand the difference between sales and profit it seems...

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16-04-2016, 05:02 PM
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One guy in two different videos with TWO DIFFERENT names!

A few years ago I came across an ad in the Forex market, and the video had some dude in his home office spouting off how he'd made x amount through this system. His name, he tells us, is Stephen Dern from Manhattan, Kansas.

Alas during my surfing way back then I came across another site... and I thought hmmm, doesn't this guy look familiar?

Sure enough, it was the same guy, in the same home office, but this time he says he is David Hoeffner from Beatrice, Nebraska!   (Personally, I think his real name is Slimy Muppet) 

Just goes to show you to what extent these guys will go to! 

I saved this info because the guy really p#$$ed me off and I thought it might come in handy one day, in case I came across this guy in some other marketing ploy. Alas, I just had a quick look and both websites seem to no longer exist - go figure! I would have exposed this obvious fraudulent behaviour back then if I had known who to contact or where to go, but I didn't have that knowledge.

The websites were  http://www.forexprofitcode.com Stephen Dern, Manhattan Kansas,   USA - "It  runs on Auto-pilot!"   and

http://www.earnonlinetakingsurveys.com   David  Hoeffner from Beatrice, Nebraska 


You can easily tell it's the same guy in the same home office!






In my mind, this is actually theft! Some poor soul may be investing their last few bucks trying to improve their lot in life and this scumbag is telling straight out lies in order to part them with their money.

No wonder many of us are skeptical about marketers these days!

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16-04-2016, 05:13 PM
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UPDATE!

Wow, just did a search for "Stephen Dern, Manhattan Kansas" and this website is still up and running!  http://www.forex-profit-code.com/?hop=0  The other site appears to have vanished... but the forex site is obviously fraudulent as it is using a false testimony!



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23-10-2016, 03:11 PM
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I think it was one of the greatest con men/hackers of all time who said that. 'You can't con an honest man'


Food for thought!!

that you can't con an honest personthat you can't con an honest person

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27-10-2016, 04:48 PM
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Thank you Eva for this question, as it prompt in my head so many times, specially I'm newbie to the IM world and I was wondering how those people making money with a software or a product just launched.  I have gone thru almost all the answers here and I really appreciate all of you for this great community and discussion.
Best wishes to all of you.

UmJannah
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